Transcript
Date: June 17, 2024
Duration: 26m 55s
Interviewer (I): Thank you so much. OK, are you seeing my screen?
Interviewee (IE): Your main upstream for using in tractors and things like that… I would say step back to production first. If you put solar PV and wind turbines together, that’s completely feasible for farming. You can have solar panels and wind combined — a hybrid system is important because the sun doesn’t always shine in England, but the wind blows often. When one isn’t available, the other usually is.
There are plenty of electrolyzers available today, so farms can generate hydrogen. It’s feasible — it’s being done in other countries and even in the UK.
Then comes the challenge: what to do with the hydrogen. Big installations use high-pressure cylinders. One approach would be to use hydrogen for fertiliser production, e.g., ammonia synthesis. There are demonstrators where ammonia can be produced in container-sized units, not like massive industrial plants. Ammonia is easier to store than hydrogen because it’s liquid and has higher energy density.
I would not put all eggs in one basket. I’d divide the hydrogen — store some directly, but also convert part into ammonia. Ammonia can then be used as fertiliser, cracked back into hydrogen when needed, or used directly as a fuel. There is even research into ammonia combustion for tractors.
From a farming perspective, I’d look at hydrogen production but also ammonia production. That way you create local value chains — fertiliser, energy, fuel. In larger farming contexts (like in Brazil), this could create not just farm jobs but technical jobs around local production plants, scaled to regions.
I: But if we want to use it, would we face challenges?
IE: The main challenge is safety. Hydrogen is a very small, flammable molecule. It leaks easily, and storage is complicated.
I: Safety, yes.
IE: For specifics like hydrogen or ammonia in tractors, you’d need experts working directly on combustion research. That’s where the main technical issues are.
I: From the farmer’s perspective, do you think they would adopt hydrogen tractors or machinery?
IE: Farmers are generally traditional. That’s the problem. Once a few start using it and see benefits, others may follow. But initially there is resistance — “we’ve always done it this way.” Education and convincing are needed. I do think hydrogen and ammonia are the future for engines, transport, and farming, but adoption will depend on government policies and incentives.
I: We touched on operational challenges, but do you think hydrogen integration in farms would need community or hub models?
IE: Yes, I don’t believe every farm will have its own system. It’s more likely that local hubs or cooperatives will emerge. Big farms might have their own, but generally it will be shared systems.
I: And regarding investment drivers — what would motivate farmers to invest in green hydrogen production given it’s not widely adopted yet?
IE: The main driver must be cost. Hydrogen has to be as cheap as, or cheaper than, fossil fuels. Financial benefit is essential. Farmers won’t risk new tech if it doubles production costs. So government policies are critical — subsidies, tax incentives, and measures to ensure competitive pricing.
I: And the risks of storage and transport?
IE: Again, safety is the big one. Hydrogen is flammable, stored at high pressure, and can leak. Long-term storage can also cause metal embrittlement, so cylinders need maintenance and regular checks. It’s feasible but requires strict safety standards.
I: Could hydrogen be used across different farming activities and crops?
IE: I don’t see why not. It’s broad enough to apply across types.
I: We found in our cost–benefit analysis that electrolyzers with compressed storage were most cost-efficient. Do you think that’s operationally feasible?
IE: Everything has challenges, but yes, it’s feasible. The expensive part is compression. Compressors are costly, and the higher the pressure, the thicker and more expensive the cylinders become. Safety concerns also increase with higher pressures. Still, I believe this is the future — though a hybrid approach, using hydrogen for multiple outputs, is better than only storing it.
I: What about financing models? Subsidies?
IE: Government input is key. Policies that make hydrogen cheaper, tax cuts for green energy use, or incentives to install electrolyzers — these would drive adoption.
I: Another potential revenue stream is selling oxygen by-products from electrolysis. Do you think that’s feasible?
IE: Possibly. I’m not very familiar with the oxygen market, but it has uses in industry and treatment processes. It would require special regulation as oxygen is an oxidising gas. Some companies are already exploring this.
I: Another idea is turning farms into refuelling stations for hydrogen, selling to other vehicles or industries. Would that be feasible?
IE: Yes, I think so. That’s what should happen — community or cooperative models. Farms could produce hydrogen and ammonia, use some internally, and sell the rest. Members could share outputs, and surplus could be sold externally.
I: The UK government provides subsidies like Sustainable Farming Incentives. Do you think these are sufficient?
IE: I don’t know the details of current subsidies or tax credits. But if hydrogen is to be implemented, stronger government support is needed.
I: Thank you very much for your time. This was really useful.
IE: No problem.
I: Thanks again. I’ll stop recording now.